Why Conservatives are Losing the Illegal Immigration Issue
by: rainball19
Total views: 8363
Word Count: 928
I have heard the argument made that illegals are a drain on the social system. Yet who is to blame for this? Who set up the welfare state system that others - besides illegal aliens - are abusing? We did. The issue is a welfare state issue. It's been used as an argument against illegals. Yet the Field of Dreams argument (if you build it, they will come) only partially explains, if at all, the undocumented immigration. There would be still be a problem even if there never were welfare state programs to be taken advantage of. If conservatives are going to make a case against illegal immigration based on this alone, it won't stand the test of scrutiny. This is just a convenient argument based solely on emotional grounds. If social programs were all that illegals come for, then eliminating them means that they'll go elsewhere. But I doubt that this is why they're here. A better argument based on solid facts will be needed.
Frankly, I don't think there is one. Any immigrant - legal or illegal - brings in $80,000 more than he pays in taxes over his lifetime into the country. These are figures from the National Research Council. And there's more: it costs over $300,000 to raise a native-born child in the country - a cost that is never included in the immigration debate before they are ready to contribute to the economy - not including government-paid schooling costs either. The immigrant comes already educated, ready to work - because another country has paid for raising that person to a productive, working age.
We are getting this immigrant's services free. Imagine if there were a clearing house the world over where an emigrant country were compensated for the costs of its citizens leaving them. But there is an even stronger moral argument regarding the illegal immigration issue - and conservatives are on the wrong side of it - and why they are losing the battle. There are two types of laws - natural law and artificial laws. The former include things like theft, murder, rape - and I'd include slander and adultery too. These things are universal in human treatment thereof.
The second category is that man-made laws - artificial ones where laws are passed just because we don't like what somebody is doing and we make it a crime. This is where immigration falls. Immigration is an activity that has existed throughout human history - and will continue to do so forever. If it is part of human nature, then there's nothing that can be done about it. The very fact that there are some estimates from 13 to 20 million "illegals" is proof that this is human nature in action. And this comes as laws have become ever stricter. The unpleasant truth for conservatives is that laws such as this that run contrary to human nature are bound to fail - making a mockery of law in the process. You can pass all the laws you want, but if nobody abides by them, then what good are they?
There is another problem too. European white Americans descended upon the New World continents in massive numbers and I don't recall that they ever asked permission of the Native Americans if they could do so. This may seem to some here as trivial, but we are now complaining that others are doing to white Americans what we did to the native Americans before us. This is hypocritical - no matter how you slice it. And this argument HAS to be addressed because it focuses on the moral aspect of immigration. And there is no way conservatives can address this aspect of morality successfully, given the history of America. Conservatives invoke obedience to laws, yet our ancestors themselves didn't have a problem running off the natives to expand the country. And now we demand that others obey the law? How are you going to enforce stricter laws without becoming a police state? Impossible.
Its quite ironic that liberals are having a field day observing that conservatives are demanding more government on their pet issues while excoriating liberals for government involvement in theirs. I recall a local conservative host complaining that Mexico had strict laws that are enforced. That's a canard. If another country enables torture, does that mean we too get to employ torture too? No nation anywhere has ANY right to enforce immigration policies - except one: Israel. Their authority comes from the Bible. Where does it say in the Bible that this continent belongs to white Americans? Can someone show me the book, chapter and verse of that scripture? Who does this planet belong to? The only reason that there is a debate at all is because government has become big enough to try to muscle its way into making policy. As we can see by the numbers and the reality - that has failed badly. It has failed badly because the morality of illegal immigration just isn't there. When you fail on a moral basis, you've LOST the battle. HE WHO OCCUPIES THE MORAL HIGH GROUND ULTIMATELY PREVAILS. In the process, government has become so big that it can't fulfill its current social program obligations. The days when government will be able to make immigration policy will soon be over because it will become so broke that it can't pay its bills. Frankly, for me - that day can't come soon enough.
About the Author
I am a social issues commentator - irrespective of political ideology.
I am a truth seeker - and I believe in objective morality - no matter who it is who has a piece of it.
Rating: 5.00
Comments
I agree with some of your views, but when you say that an immigrant comes here pre educated and ready to work, how about the food stamps they get and the free education their children get when they haven't paid into the system that funds those programs.
Also, if you say that since we, as a people, don't like something and we make it a crime which is how you describe immigration, then I have a question. I am married to a naturalized Filipina. I have gone through all the proper procedures for bringing her brothers and sisters here. They are all grown and of working age. They have college degrees, so they are ready to work and become productive members of society. Yet since there is an ocean seperating the Philippines and the U.S. they cannot 'sneak' in and become members of society. Why should Mexicans be allowed to do so?
I don't want to sound racist against Mexicans. I am not. I work with a Mexican woman, who in my honest opinion is the hardest working person I have ever met in my life. I consider her a close friend and besides her I am friends with many others who are Mexicans here legally. The issue is legality. If we set up laws concerning immigration, whether they be morally right or wrong, and they are not enforced, who is to say that all other laws should be ignored also? Why shouldn't I be allowed to smoke marijuana or shoot my neighbors dog for pooping in my yard? Laws are laws and without them we would live in chaos. If laws are unjust we need to change the laws. But until that event takes place they need to be enforced, right or wrong.
--
Any immigrant - legal or illegal - brings in $80,000 more than he pays in taxes over his lifetime into the country.
Screw... uhh rainball
Your very first substantive point is wrong. The NRC found that figure as an average, therefore some immigrants contribute higher and some lower and some, indeed, are in the negative column. Moreover, that figure excludes 'public goods' such as defense, infrastructure and the like.
Second, the indians did in fact try to limit the settlement of strangers, as any familiarity with American history would tell you. They simply didn't succeed. I suggest the Indian metaphor is perfect, it is our right as a people to resist the colonization of our land just as they did. That is our natural right.
My question is... Does a Nation have the right to regulated immigration to its lands? If so then what does it matter how much illegal aliens contribute or take from a system that is being illegally invaded? Sure human history is full of conquest of lands and people but that does not take away from human instinct to resist invasion.. You seem to be a correctnoid, trying to convince the reader that it is politically correct to allow what ever and deny our basic instinct to protect ourselves from those uninvited guest in our home... I hope you find your Liberal kissy, feely, huggy Utopian world.. It has not,is not, and sorry to say will not ever be.. As humans are a dominating species, and will always wish to control what moves in and out of the area we occupy...
--
I have to agree with Steve's point. Since every nation does indeed have the right to regulate who, when and how many people are allowed into their territory it is a self-defeating argument to say that in any way, shape or form having millions of people enter the United States is a befeicial thing.
No one would in their right mind argue that our borders should not be inthe least way regulated, so unless said person argues instead for the revision of the qualifications for entry their point is inherently invalid.
i feel that they should alow them to come in but under sertiain cercomestances like i feel that they should have to learn english and that they should have to be able to hlp socity and that they should be privlated like i can see letting them come over here if they have been acting good and not causeing troble and that they should get oppertunitys and be rewarded for how they are doing and what they are doing so yes they should all have the rights to come here but yeah they should hav to meet some of the requirments.
I totally agree with the article, because the illegal immigrant issue is is more based in rasism against mexicans or latinos. Until now i haven't heard a case of an European or assian who has being deported, if the government wants to make this coutry for just Americans then they should deport people from other continents. I consider latinos as Americans too, because we all live in the same continent and weard thing is that latinos are the most descriminated by the American government.
I agree with the article 90%. I'm happy to see that one of these articles actually looks at the situation from another point of veiw and isn't completely selfish. People need to put themselves in their shoes. However, I wish that people would look at the entire legal process as a whole and reevalute it. It's almost rediculous and needs to be updated so it can be dealt with at a quicker pace. I believe that alone could cut down "illegal" immigration.
HE WHO OCCUPIES THE MORAL HIGH GROUND ULTIMATELY PREVAILS.
Referring to a comment earlier, you don’t here about deportation on European immigrants because the biggest problems come for the Mexican border. Most people who come from Europe do it legal and there are 3 times as many Hispanics jumping the Mexican border than Europeans sneaking into the U.S.
Ah, there we go with the racist card, I knew that would be thrown in there. What is racist about requiring elected officials to follow the constitution in the protection of this land against an illegal alien invasion? (by the way, approx 7,000 citizens deaths are attributed to murders and auto accidents by illegal aliens)so this unchecked invasion is not only draining on Social Services and other programs but it is killing Citizens at a higher rate than terrorism. What is racist about demanding that current immigration laws on the books be enforced?
What is racist about requiring LEGAL entry by all nationalities to this great land? Securing our borders has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with security for ourselves and to gain respect from those wishing to enter no matter what part of the rainbow they come from.... Oh, by the way, if you watch the news. You must have seen the group of poor illegal aliens who were taken into custody who were working in a sweat shop for 3rd world wages. And guess what, the sweat shop was right here in the good ole USA..
This smoke and mirror game by Cooperate America and our politicians on giving amnesty, guest worker visas etc etc has nothing to do with giving foreigners a chance at the American dream, IT'S ABOUT MONEY, keeping as much as possible in the cooperate coffers. Cheap labor is the key and that is the goal, cheap labor....
It must be obvious that both sides of the illegal alien entry issue are being used or pitted against each other by those whose interests are to feather their own nest.
The aliens sneak in risking their lives, some having paid an extortive coyote for that assistance.
The corporations want the aliens so they can pay the lowest possible wage, offer few if any benefits, and can skirt or even ignore safety laws, because no illegal alien can complain for fear of exposure & deportation.
Some want open borders not because they care about people, but because many coming in from central America in particular, come from socialist nations. These folks know no other form of government. So once here they want America to become a socialist nation.
If the aliens were to assimilate, they would eventually embrace our way of life, our idea that you work & earn & keep what you've earned. We help those in need, w/o any advice or insistence of our government, but the socialists want ONLY the government to handle assistance to the needy, because it means bigger government.
We are all being taken for a ride by sides pitting us against each other.
Immigration IS good for America. However, any fool knows if you overload a boat, it WILL capsize.
America is on the verge of capsizing not because we hate or do not want immigrants, but because there is no order to the system.
There is nothing wrong with securing the border. The financial costs for one 9-11 level attack, would easily pay for a fence.
That fence would keep out many undesirables.
We address reform as amnesty only. BUT that is NOT the problem, nor is it REAL reform.
DHS is broken. Our legal immigration process is broken. THAT is where reform should take place so those who want to come can do so via an efficient, expeditious system that meets the needs of the business community, keeps criminal & terrorists out, helps people from ALL over the world, not just the next door neighbor get in, and does so with an eye that sooner or later, the boat is full.
That is not racist. That is not bigoted. That is not mean spirited. That is not stingy or greedy.
That is reasonable, sound logic, with a desire we succeed so we can aid other nations to success.
The broken systems in many nations compel many to come here. We need a strong & vibrant America who can help peoples in other nations reform their nations to become prosperous and safe homes for the native peoples.
I believe that everything happends for a reason and if immigrants are suppose to be around then let them. Everyone of them just wants to live a good life, raise a family, and do everything "us" Americans do. I say let them.
I am not racist, but I think we have to draw the line somewhere on how many people, regardless of race are allowed to come to america.
This great land is not a free for all for the whole world. The area where I live is becoming so congested with traffic and people that it is reducing peopes quality of life. You put so many rats in a cage and they will start killing each other. I go to the luandry mat and I can hardly wash my clothes anymore, and was threatened in Herndon, va laundry mat by a hispanic gang member. He threatened to take my clothes outta my dryer, and I grew up in Herndon and this was the kicker for me. These illegal alien people regardless of race are imposing thier will on us, breaking our laws and calling us racist if we oppose them. where do we draw the line. I say we should have drawn it a long time ago. This could mean all out war in another time or space but we keep pandering to these people. Like I said I am not racist and have some spanish fiends, but The laws need to be enforced for the good of everybody that should be able to believe in a goverment Of, by, and for the people. These illegal invaders are undermining potential american opportunity. We are an induvidulistic, people but can and are being out numbered by these people with their collective buying power. How can we compete as induvidual americans. The goverment is not representing all americans and are representing the wants and desires of big bussiness, and will seel their mother out for a dollar bill. This goverment is a sham, a sell out to lobbists, The chinese or anybody that can give them short term gain but long term pain for the country as a whole. Its all about the mmoney folks. Money talks bullshit walks, and the american people are the bullshit in this case. Big bussiness is running this country, and they just want to capitalise any way they can,legal,illegal, or otherwise ruining this country but sweetining their individual retirements :ie exon ceo style. We need big change here, really big,
Thanks anon, Manassas, Va